Mike: Hello, my fellow fitness fiend and welcome to another episode of Muscle for Life. I am your host, Mike Matthews. Thank you for joining me today to talk about fitness when life gets in the way, especially when you are a new parent. I often hear from new parents who are looking for tips on getting fit or maintaining fitness now that they can’t work out as much as they once did or as intensely as they once did, because they are not sleeping as they once did.
And so I have talked about this here and there myself, but I wanted to get somebody back on the show who I haven’t spoken to in a while who does a lot of similar work as I do, writes books and records, podcasts and coaches, people, and so forth, and that has Ben Kuber. Who is a coach, a nutritionist, educator, father podcaster, motivational speaker, and an all around pretty driven guy who is also a new-ish parent who has had to figure out how to navigate this next phase of his life.
Ben has also recently released a book called How to Live An Awesome Life, and in this book he shares his formula and his thoughts on finding more fulfillment and more success in our lives, even if we are very busy because all of us are very busy. And so this episode is for you if you want to hear Ben’s thoughts on the importance of making time for yourself and forcing yourself to make time for yourself.
Because many people, especially many women in my experience, don’t, they’re very selfless and they will give all of themselves to their family and to their employer and leave nothing for themselves. And I agree with Ben that I think that is a mistake. It’s, it’s a noble mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.
In this interview, Ben also talks about how he has found a balance for his family, his demanding job, well, I guess he has multiple jobs really as the owner of multiple businesses, his fitness, his health. And he also shares his experience with long covid and how that manifested and what he has done to overcome it and more.
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It’s been many moons. .
Ben: Yeah, it has. It’s good to connect. Good to see you. Good to hear from me. Good to hear that all the things that you’re doing and the people you’re trying to inspire is still going strong and like it.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And same to you. I know that we have a, a similar mission, I guess on, on a personal level, which is very education focused and that’s why we continue to write books even though maybe we quote unquote don’t have to.
It’s something that we like to do and it’s a great way to reach people and, and to reach people podcasts as well. Uh, one of the things, I’m sure it’s the same for you, one of the things I like about this type of work is you’re reaching people who actually want to make a change. And it’s more rewarding, I think, to be able to connect with people who want to make a change and help them and show them the way rather than try.
Argue with people who don’t wanna make a change or try to convince people who don’t wanna make a change, that they need to make a change much more difficult, almost impossible
Ben: actually, on Facebook. That’s the place everyone goes to argue Twitter.
Mike: Twitter is best for, uh, arguing with random strangers on the internet.
Ben: I, my Twitter’s not as hot property anymore. So for me it’s Facebook. That’s where the, the Drakes seem to be .
Mike: There’s a, there’s a clear difference in the. At least in my Facebook crowd versus my Twitter crowd. It seems to be probably age. It seems to be the primary difference that the people I interact with on Twitter seem to be a bit younger, uh, on average than the people on Facebook.
But I haven’t really looked much into it. It just, uh, it seems
Ben: that way. Let’s not get into the depths of social media and how it’s warping the world’s.
Mike: Well, let’s talk about books. You have a, a new book that it’s coming out. I guess by the time this is published, it’s gonna be pretty soon, right? It’s gonna be in the
Ben: next month or so.
Yeah, live will be pre-sale or out by the time this goes live. I think pre-sales, 8th of December, it’s called How to Live An Awesome Life. And
Mike: so that’s self-development, obviously self-help if you want to call it that. What’s the premise? There are a lot of books. It’s a very competitive space and a lot of people have said a lot of things.
What made you want to add to the
Ben: literature? I suppose in anyone’s work, you need to do the work that’s most aligned to what you feel your purpose and your mission is. And like I’m in the fitness, nutrition, health space like you, but I’ve always come at it from an angle. I want to be strong, fit, healthy to live a great life.
Like it’s not some kind of aesthetic goal or a, a performance goal. It’s like, I want a better quality of living. I wanna feel strong. I wanna like the skin that I’m in. And for me, that’s, uh, a personal development thing. And fitness is just a tool. Nutrition is a tool. So the book’s premise is that there’s 11 tools or 11 steps in the process to you living your best life.
And it’s, it’s about how you approach life, then how you feed yourself, how you drink, how you sleep, how you move. So as you know, as a coach, like getting someone to stick to a fitness plan isn’t as simple as can you get to the gym three times a week for an hour? It’s a case of how does it work around your kids, your spouse, your work, like your motivation trends.
Like it’s, it’s not just about the plan. And I suppose that’s why I wanted to write a book that was a bit more all encompassing because you. Turn over one stone and then another stone needs to be turned over in the pursuit of implementing and changing. And I suppose that’s why.
Mike: And what are some of the other tools that are in the book in addition to the, to the few that you just mentioned?
Ben: Yeah. Then there’s kind of lifestyle and so basically the life you want to live and how do we shape it? There’s the income and career aspect because let’s not be around the bush. The more money you want, the better food you can buy, you know, the better nice things go on holiday adventures, all of that kind of stuff.
Mike: you also get freedom to find what makes you happy, right? I mean, I agree that to a point, and not having financial problems maybe actually increases the happiness quotient in your life. Beyond that, less so, however, it does buy you time and buy you freedom and you need that to, to find what’s really fulfilling, right.
Ben: Yeah, so the data that I quote in the book is actually US data. And it was a survey done, can’t remember about uh, the body, but it basically said that up until about 50 grand a year, you improve in happiness. So $50,000 and then above that your happiness just plateaus. You don’t get any happier. So that 50 grand is obviously enough for people to afford all the normal things, rent, food, that kind of stuff.
But then also probably go on holiday, go on, do cool things, like you say, have the freedom to do nice things, experience life without the stresses and strains of like, oh my God, can I pay for my physiotherapy appointment? Can I pay for my, you know, my son’s, you know, new pair of glasses or whatever. So I think that’s, that’s kind of the premise.
So I lean into that in the book. I’m like, let’s get you there. Cause the data shows that that’s where people are living a more fulfilling kind of life. And then there’s kind of like the inspiration element. ,
Mike: that was, that was before the, uh, transitory inflation though. So maybe it needs to be a bit higher.
And, and also, you know, I’ve spoken about that research and my caveat, my kind of asterisk is I think that that’s probably true for some people and not true for other people depending on their circumstances. I mean, just think about where people live. For example, if you live in the middle of Kansas, maybe 50,000 gets you a comfortable life.
If you live in the middle of Manhattan, you’re living in a dented porta potty and living off of like ramen noodles. A and then what about a single dude who just needs to be able to pay for his, like Xbox subscription and only fans compared to a married couple with kids, but for just about anybody once.
Beyond probably a hundred to 150 k a year household income, then I, I think that that probably holds mostly true.
Ben: Yeah. But ultimately we are getting towards the conversation of fulfillment, happiness, freedom. Like I did a few social media polls when I was writing the book cause I wanted to nail in the subtitle and I said, what does living an awesome life mean to you as an individual?
And freedom came up a lot. Freedom of choice, freedom of time, freedom to pursue the things that people wanna pursue. And like you say, a certain amount of money. Creates that time, creates that. This is a bit of a passion topic for me around self-development in the world of self-development. I think there’s a bit of a broken record about always adding stuff to your life.
Now, you’ll look on Instagram these days and there’s like real trends where it’s like, here’s the morning routine of a millionaire. And it’s like they get up and they meditate and they do an ice cold shower, and then they journal and then they do this and it’s like three hours of their day is like, what?
Who’s doing that? No. Like, yes, the single man who lives on his own in inner city and has the money to afford all of those things. So like for me, in, in the way of self-development, I’m a big fan of talking of subtraction before edition. It’s like, let’s create this space, actually just decide what it is that you really want.
Cause so many people don’t actually know what it’s they really fucking want. So it’s like, well let’s get all the noise. Stop doing all these things that you don’t wanna do, cause you friction, make you angry. And then spend a bit of time with that. And then we slowly add things cuz you just keep adding on top.
You just get more stressed. Right? ? It’s like when I became a dad, it became instantly more stressful. Cause I was like, oh my God, I’ve got a human to look after. Oh my God, I’ve not got as much time. Oh my God, I’m tired. So I think subtraction before addition is a, a big, big thing for development of yourself.
Mike: are there things that you’ve subtracted from your life in the last call it year or two, that have made a significant difference, have freed up time to put elsewhere and the, the change has been
Ben: positive, I’d like to say. Yeah. But the problem was, is I became apparent the same week the pandemic started.
All those things got taken away by default. I stopped playing sport. Everything closed. I stopped traveling for work. But I think I’m a really bad example cause it all got taken from me. . I had no life design, wasn’t in control of that. And then
Mike: what did you learn from that experience though? Like have you, have you changed things now that are rulers have, uh, allowed us to leave our homes again?
Ben: if I changed? Not a huge amount. I don’t travel as much for work cuz of young kids, but beautifully the world has adapted to that. We do more online, as you know. And I’ve already had an online business anyway. What I have realized is that, I really miss the connection that I get with my work, where I’m potentially speaking at event once a month, or I’m going to a local gym and I’m doing a something.
Whereas, you know, in the pandemic it all became about computers and I was like, I have no idea who I’m talking to. I’m not connected to my work, so I have to go out of my way to try and organize. And I talk about this in the book, I’m, I talk about continually being inspired, like, what’s inspiring you?
Because life can become quite unins inspirational if you’re just working from home, living a lot from home. Like you go out twice a week, maybe those trips to the, the gym, maybe they’re not. So it’s like. Is your inspiration cup getting filled up that much? If it’s not, then we need to address that because it’s gonna be frustrating for you.
And I felt that in the pandemic coming out of it. So I had to start to create my own environment for inspiration because more and more events that I used to go to and now online and I’m like, I don’t want another online event. I wanna connect with people. I wanna feel their energy. So that’s probably the biggest thing that I’ve had to like go out of my way to reconnect.
Mike: I can relate to that. Sometimes people will ask me, uh, to do a video of a day in the life. I’m like, guys, my life is, my life is boring. Can I can tell you I do the same things every day. A lot of my time these days is it’s chores, you know, running businesses. And even though, you know, I have a great team of people and I’ve delegated a lot of things that are boring, that I don’t want to do, I still have to do a lot of things that quite frankly, are boring.
And that’s something I’ve learned about myself. Speaking about what’s inspiring business unto itself is not inspiring to me. It’s not. I have friends who love it. I have one friend in part. He’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He doesn’t have to do anything for the rest of his life. He didn’t want to, but he just loves growing his business and getting richer.
He just loves it. He does. He’ll tell me like it gives him a high, you know, he is not into drugs. He doesn’t even drink caffeine. He’s a good guy. He’s married, he has kids, but he just gets his high from building his business or businesses and making more money. I don’t have that, uh, unfortunately. So I can’t just lean on something that simple.
And a lot of the mechanics of business are kind of boring to me. I do like marketing and so I, I usually can find some inspiration cuz it’s creative. I usually can find some inspiration in the marketing of the, of the business. So, you know, and anyways, just, this is something that I have had to think about over the last couple of years in particular, uh, because on one hand, My business is everything is doing well.
But on the other hand, I was feeling less and less kind of inspired and it’s fine. I can just show up and do the work. I’m not gonna complain. It’s kind of like workouts. You don’t love every workout, you just do it and then you feel good after you after you did it. But it has occurred to me that rarely having any fun is not a great way to live
So what has that been like for you? Well, what do you find inspir? Connecting with people. You mentioned that. Are there other, are there other aspects of your life and your work in particular that you can always go back to? It’s like, you know, that’s the ideal thing. There aren’t that many things in life, right, that we can just enjoy again and again and again.
E even drugs don’t work like that. You have to take more and more, right? Sex works like that. That’s one, and, but if you can find something in your work that always pulls you into it as opposed to something you have to push yourself into, I think that that is very valuable and I appreciate that more now than.
Maybe 10 years ago.
Ben: Writing and content creation for me, exploring ideas, trying to shape, you know, ideas and inspire people, long walks in nature. Like I just can’t get enough of like rural walks where I live is absolutely beautiful adventures. Like I love new things. Like I went and did a single seat of drive and experience the other day again cuz of what I do experience with eating new and different, you know, to feel alive, to feel on edge.
So I love doing things like that bit of sport and then eating great food. I think they’re probably like the four or five things that I probably love the most in my life outside of, you know, you know, family time, kind of, I’m talking on a personal level and I think it’s really important to, with both parents and like, A lot of people would say they don’t get enough time for themselves, but do you make that time for yourself?
It’s really important to fill up your own cup. I have to do it. My wife has to do it to be our best selves, otherwise we get grumpy, grouchy, we get stuck, we get frustrated. So they’re the things that like constantly fill up my cup. Do
Mike: you or have you struggled with forcing yourself, quote unquote, to do those things as opposed to just working more?
Because it’s easy just to work more, especially when you have your own businesses. There’s a never ending amount of stuff that needs to be done.
Ben: Yeah. Do you know what I’m gonna say? No. And again, I got forced into this in the pandemic, so I got quite ill in the pandemic with long covid and there became a point where, I couldn’t work for a prolonged period of time.
Like I couldn’t do a 10, 12, 14 hour day anymore. It would just like crush me. So I ended up doing like six, seven hour days. And then as I got healthier, I’d noticed that actually my concentration would be on fire for six hours and then there’d just be this rapid decline. And I started to just tune into that and pay attention.
So now I pretty much do my workday where it’s like I do these like blocks in the day, and if I get up early and I’m in a good mood, I’ll do like an hour and a half block in the morning and then I’ll take a bit longer, maybe work out, and then I’ll do a block lunch and a block. And I’ve just kind of stuck to that and I’ve just had to stay strong and look at the data of my concentration performance and output, which is really hard.
Cause as an entrepreneur you’re just always like, well, let’s just do more. You know, working out, if you’re feeling good, it’s easy to just do more, but then two days later you’re gasped only your third workout of the week or whatever because you’ve, you’ve pushed into your recovery too much. So I kind of got forced to tune into that, and I’m really grateful.
So I generally follow that pattern now of kind of a six hour workday.
Mike: And do you, like, do you find that you are most creative in the morning or later in the day or, yeah,
Ben: most creative in the morning. I’m a morning person, so I’d love to do my, my writing, that kind of stuff. It’s not always that easy because of the demands of like, you need to do team meetings and all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, if I can shape it that way, the best thing for me is just to turn off all distractions, put my phone on airplane mode, log out of my email like, This is my list of tasks. Do these things and then log back on again. And I, I, you know, people talk about productivity hacks. I think that’s just the best one.
turn everything off
Mike: for me. It’s slack. Slack goes off. I just make myself available. I have digital office hours, so to speak. There are times where we’re working on something that, or I’m involved in something that needs to get done as soon as possible. And so that, that might be the first thing I do in the morning is go to Slack and, and continue working on it.
But for the most part, it’s the same for me. I like to do my creative stuff in the morning before I go to the gym or after I go to the gym, check Slack, what’s going on, answer questions, do another block. Usually it’s something like this, or marketing related after lunch. And then do Slack stuff again. I save email for later in the day because it doesn’t take very much mental energy to grind through emails.
And, uh, that’s, that’s the way that I like to do it.
Ben: Nice. Nice. It sounds pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike: I mean a lot of, a lot of people it seems, who do our type of work, uh, work in that way. Have you tried doing creative stuff at night? Let’s say you’re not physically tired yet, but it’s the
Ben: evening. Not for a long time, just cuz of my lifestyle.
I’ve got young kids, so you know. Food, bed, bath time, always like a two, two and a half hour window. And then me and the wife might eat and then it’s literally like an hour. Cause I go to bed really early, I go to bed at, no, I’m usually asleep by nine 15. So yeah, I usually reserve the last hour for the day of like a bit TV with the wife or do a couple of chores or fill out some form for the child or whatever that you’ve gotta do.
Uh, so no. Yeah. And, uh,
Mike: maybe, maybe some sex now and then that’s the only time when it’s gonna
Ben: happen. . We’ll see if I’m lucky. You know, have a, have a prayer. . .
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like my household. It just doesn’t work logistically for the same reasons. Uh, usually. If for whatever reason I get the opportunity and I’m not physically tired yet, if I slept fine the night before, whatever, I’ll find that evening.
Creative work is probably similar. Maybe the morning is a little bit better, little bit better ideas, flows a little bit easier. But for me it’s the, probably this time of the day between three and 5:00 PM is the worst for me. And like you, I’ve paid attention to whether it’s, you know, how many words or just the quality and how much of a grind it is.
This period of the day is the worst for me. Early and late work. Well, but I, I’ve spoken with other people who do this type of work who have noticed that, uh, as well.
Ben: Do you not just think the key correlation there is the center of freedom that no one else is really doing. You’re not demanded like slacks not even in a, you know, it’s not even working because it’s kind of out of hours.
So for me it kind of almost feels like it’s just like these are out of hours time. So I can almost mentally and emotionally be a hundred percent creative and free with it. Yeah. Yeah, that might
Mike: be part of it. You know, I usually do some work on the weekends as well and experience that where there’s nothing now I quote, unquote, have to do.
I don’t have any interviews, I don’t have any calls. There’s nothing on my calendar whatsoever. But it’s also kind of an energy thing as well. Notice that physical energy and mental energy, it’s just a little bit lower for me around this time of the day and then picks back up a little bit early evening and then it falls off.
But anyway. So you mentioned long covid. I’m just curious what happened.
Ben: Got Covid was fine, got like a sniffle. Um, and then I did a charity event where I had to hike up a steep hill for nine hours to replicate the, a ascent of Everest. We did it to support one of our athletes with our supplement company, and the next day I just couldn’t get outta bed.
Felt like I had just like a. Iron suit on couldn’t move. And I was like, this is weird. I’m not that unfit. And then it just went on and on and then like, you know, it’d been going on a couple of weeks and I was like, I really need to delve into this. Started to look at my symptoms, started to read around. We thought we might have had covid because my wife lost her.
Like her taste and smell. And then in the end it kind of all kind of added up. Got some blood work done that showed I had low neutrophils, which would show signs of active infection. Cause I didn’t do a test straight away, so I had no idea whether I didn’t or I didn’t because it was so early on in lockdown.
And then, yeah, it was a re , it then transpired, well, it was just a really dark time, uh, fatigue, brain fog, anger, depression, couldn’t think straight. Uh, it was really, really dark. And that went on for about 14 months.
Mike: 14 months.
Ben: Yeah, 14 months-ish, and then some symptoms lingered and I kept getting blood work and my testosterone was really low, so I did like three tests.
Did a short cycle of H C G to see if it was my testosterone that was an issue to try and like rule that out. Did the hgc and my testosterone actually went down about another six or 7%, so ended up going onto T R T a couple of months ago and I would say I’m pretty much a hundred percent symptom free from any of that past stuff now.
But yeah, it was an extremely dark time. If anyone’s out there with long covid, which people that might know of people with like me, chronic fatigue syndrome. It’s horrific, so dark, like you just, the progress is so slow. It’s really hard to like stay positive, stay motivated.
Mike: My brother-in-law is I, I think he is mostly better, but he has experienced something similar, not as extreme.
He’s been dealing with fatigue for, for some months now, probably at least six months, although I think now he lives in California. So, you know, I talk to him now and then, but I’m not seeing him every day. But I think now he’s a bit better. But for a while there, I know he was having similar problems. Just low motivation, low energy fatigue.
Just kind of general tiredness. Like he could just go to sleep at 3:00 PM uh, if, you know, if he wasn’t working. And he also got his testosterone tested and he had gotten it tested at some point in the past, but it was, it was some time ago. So it, it was probably a couple of years ago and it was quite high.
So, uh, I don’t remember the exact number, but it was probably close, let’s say between eight, 900 nanograms per deciliter. That’s not surprising. He’s always gained muscle easily. He’s always been lean, kind of like an active guy, right? And so he got tested again about six months ago probably, and he was at 500.
Now we don’t know if that is, uh, A consequence of, or just, you know, he’s, he’s older. He might have even gotten tested three or four years ago, and he’s older now and he still works out and you know, he still takes care of himself. But with your testosterone, was it lowered by Covid or do you, was it just a coincidence?
Ben: When I had acute covid, uh, sorry, acute long covid. So I was in the, my worst state with my symptoms. My testosterone was, I know we measure it differently to you guys. Mine was 20.5 enl, so like a year later it was then 14.5 and then it went down to 13.5. Even when I had long covid, it was like still normal.
So what happened in that time period? I don’t know. Obviously I stopped training, so that would’ve a mild factor, but not that much. It wouldn’t, wouldn’t go down. Uh, sleep wasn’t ideal. Yeah, don’t get me wrong. Young kid not sleeping great. And then the long covid, uh, makes you sleep really bad. Always waking up at two free in the morning.
Can’t think like, then you can’t get back to sleep cuz your head’s in this like vice of pressure. It’s kinda like I sat down with the doctor, I ended up going private for the t r t and I said, look, how did this happen? And he said, dude, you’re never gonna know, like genetics, stress, life experience, environmental estrogens, like the list just goes on and on.
He goes, the reality is all we can do is look at your blood work and make a decision off that. And you have to decide whether kind of a move that you want to make. So I’d, I’d love to know, and I, I, you know, worked for a, a period of time to do all the normal optim optimizations, but like sleep, as you spoke about earlier with sleep, like, is my sleep ever gonna be ideal or is it gonna be ideal for a while?
I’ve got two young kids, like they’re gonna keep getting up in the night for kind of a while. Right. I dunno. It’s tough. I can’t pinpoint
Mike: it. Interesting. I have experienced what is probably a little bit of after effects of Covid. I’ve had it a couple of times now just cause people around me have had it and somebody ended up testing, even though they were positive and like for me, it was never more than.
Maybe a light head cold, but recently my wife had it and had some body aches and it, uh, messed up her sleep a little bit, and then I got it from her again. It was mild, the illness itself, but then for the next two or three months, every three or four weeks or so, like one, my sleep was generally worse. My sleep for five, six years since my daughter arrived, for whatever reason, that was just a switch.
I don’t know, like a biological switch flipped and is what it is. Like for me, it’s staying asleep. I don’t usually have trouble falling asleep, but I usually, I don’t sleep through the night ever, period. Just doesn’t happen anymore. Right. But after having covid, I was waking up maybe not every night, but it was fa it was at least a few times per week.
I would wake up every hour or two and then I would fall back. Wake up an hour and a half, maybe two hours later. And again, fortunately I was able to fall back asleep usually, although sometimes, like you mentioned, I’d wake up. I didn’t have any mental symptoms, anything related to my head at all. However, sometimes I’d wake up and I couldn’t just fall back asleep.
Uh, I would notice that I was saying this offline, right? With my heart rate. I don’t wanna repeat myself, so I’ll say quickly. So I, you know, I wear this little whoop guy for, for tracking sleep. Sometimes, like if I’m curious where my sleep is at, I like to look at the wakings and my, my heart rate. And so what I noticed with my, uh, my whoop, is that.
My after Covid, there would be times where my heart rate was just slightly elevated. So instead of 40 to 50 beats per minute when I’m sleeping, I would be 50, it would be 60, not 70, but it’s a little bit higher than usual. And then I would also, uh, feel a little bit awake, just awake enough to not be able to fall back asleep.
So that sleep thing was kind of happening every other. Maybe. And then every three or four weeks, I also would feel like I was starting to get sick again. Same kind of covid. For me, COVID is, I get mucusy. That’s one thing. I’ve had it a few times now, and that’s the first thing I notice is a little bit of throat, maybe soreness and just kind of mucusy and congested.
And so I would feel like I was starting to get sick again, and I would take off the gym, okay, what’s going on? It would last for a few days and then go away. All right, fine. And that happened again several times, three or four weeks. My brother-in-law was having the same thing every three or four weeks. He was like, dude, I feel like I’m getting sick again, but I’m not.
And so I tried the natural supplements that have any evidence of efficacy. N a c, quercetin, sperm, aine, sperm, how re pronounce it, I think I’m forgetting one or two others. Didn’t seem to do anything. But what did seem to help is Ivermectin ironically, which I know there’s controversy over its efficacy, but there’s no controversy over its safety.
So I was like, sure, I’ll, I’ll just take. I’ll take it every day for a month and let’s see, more or less immediately my sleep got better. My, I, my heart rate was now not randomly elevating at night and keeping me awake, and I didn’t have the recurring almost illness thing. And, uh, so there we go. There’s my, there’s my covid story with some horse paste that may or may not have helped.
Maybe it was just in my mind, but I’ll take it. .
Ben: I’ve heard a lot of very strange stories sort of post covid of how people’s bodies just feel different. Immune systems feel different. I’ve got a, a doctor friend and she is noticing a, a weird correlation of people getting increased symptoms of arthritis.
And so like, again, who knows what’s going on, and that’s the problem with virus.
Mike: Could be connected with inflammation. There seemed to be other symptoms that would be related to just elevated levels of inflammation
Ben: in the body. A hundred percent. So like the last symptom that I really struggled with was getting back to exercise, post-exercise fatigue, malaise.
It took me nearly six months to build back up to just doing some like basic body weight stuff. It was like as soon as I did a bit of resistance training, my body would just go into this absolute meltdown in response to it. So, um, like what was going on there? You know, no idea. All the protocols seem the same, like rest build back up slowly, but build back up really slowly and it’s painful being a fitness person, building yourself up like that.
But needs must.
Mike: Hey there. If you are hearing this, you are still listening, which is awesome. Thank you. And if you are enjoying this podcast, or if you just like my podcast in general and you are getting at least something out of it, would you mind sharing it with a friend or a loved one or a not so loved one even who might want to learn something new?
Word of mouth helps really big in growing the show. So if you think of someone who might like this episode or another one, please do tell them about it. So your kids and. Staying fit with kids? How has that been for you? That’s something I get asked about. I do these little Instagram q and a’s. Every week or so, there are always a few people in there asking, saying, Hey, I just had a kid, or recently had a kid.
I’m not sleeping so well anymore. I’m not feeling so motivated anymore. I don’t have all the time that I used to have. Do you have any, any tips ?
Ben: Hmm. So there’s two big things that I lean on. Obviously, we’re all trying to get as much sleep as possible with young children. That’s just a given, so let’s not go there.
The first thing was is keeping your diet super consistent. You know, it’s really common that when people have kids, you get a bit lazy and start to cut corners. And I think if you keep your diet dialed in, you keep your body composition in check and that keeps you happy because you’re not gaining body fat.
So when I became apparent, we just batch cooked even more. Like, you know, on a day that we were feeling good, we’d just do like a huge shepherd’s pie or a huge curry or you know, whatever, a just good wholesome normal food. So we always had our nutrition in check. The thing that I struggled with, and it took me a while, and especially when the second kid came along, was, um, just realigning expectations.
I think that’s the biggest thing. And you know, So much of our unhappiness usually comes from our expectations of how life is gonna pan out. So with your training, it’s like, oh, I’m gonna train today, I’m gonna do X. And then something happens and then you are pissed off and stuff. So I think it’s lowering expectations, lowering your kind of goal bar.
Cuz if you are someone that, for example, was really into like strength training and you’d be doing three or four really heavy sessions a week, chances are really slim, you’re gonna be able to do that with young kids. So it’s like realign that. Like can you commit to like, is two sessions gonna be enough?
And the reality is for guys that are into building muscle and lifting weights, it takes a really surprisingly small amount of gym time to maintain muscle mass. But obviously it needs a lot of gym time to gain muscle mass. So actually I found that just getting into the gym twice a week, full body, you know, keeping it simple, keeping the loads pretty decent.
Keeping the tension good, all of that stuff. I maintain my muscle mass. And I think that’s a big panic as well, of, especially amongst guys. It’s like, oh, if I don’t lift for too long and I lose all my muscle, you won’t. Like, I stopped lifting for nearly 20 months with my long covid, and I lost a kilo and a half of muscle.
That’s it. Like, and I’ve, I’ve built that back up, you know, in like six to eight weeks of being back to kind of lifting consistently for about three months now. So yeah, realigning expectations, making yourself really efficient. Because ultimately the most important thing in your life right now is your kids.
Mike: Kilo and a half is all you lost in 20 months. And that was with low testosterone as well? Yes. Wow. And you were able to maintain that obviously by, by eating well, eating enough protein, and maybe a little bit of genetic help. Honestly, like I’m surprised to hear that even I, I think I would probably lose quite a bit if I were to stop for that long.
I haven’t tried it, so maybe I’m wrong. .
Ben: Yeah, I mean, there’s no way to kind of know. I think I’ve been at the same body weight for a long time. I think I reached close to my genetic potential for muscle mass when I was probably about 25 and I’m now 36. So it’s almost like, I think if your gain would’ve been faster.
You might have dropped off quicker, cuz your gains are quite new. But I think, you know, my muscle mass I’ve had for quite a long period of time. I think that’s probably helped it to be honest. Yeah, that’s interesting.
Mike: Uh, I can’t say that’s, that’s not something I’ve looked into, like I’m trying to think about just, just maybe research that I’ve, that I’ve read.
There’s nothing that pops into my mind on that point in particular, but there could be something to that, that, that the longer you’ve had muscle, the harder it is to lose. That’d be an interesting question actually to dig around for. Maybe there’s not a pat answer out there, but maybe, maybe some possible mechanisms that would contribute to that.
Uh, what, what I’ve noticed is that I just haven’t, I guess I haven’t taken an extended break in so long. It does seem that the, the longer I’ve trained the, the less inflation and deflation I noticed. I don’t know if you remember, uh, I remember clearly. It’s also how I train though, where, you know, you work out during the week and you have that kind of residual pump and you look pretty good, and then by the end of Sunday you look like you don’t even lift, you look like you lost, you know, 10 pounds of lean mass over the weekend, , uh, because you have less fluid in your muscles.
But with enough myo fibrillar hypertrophy, that seems to normalize and yeah, you know, you get, you get a little bit of a residual pump, but you can, you can always look like you lift even if you take a few days off. So there, there could be something maybe similar to just that prolonged training effect that allows you to, where you have maybe semi permanently changed your body composition basically.
Ben: Yeah, I just, I think so much of what we experience with our body compositions in our head anyway.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Especially we pay attention to every little thing. When we look in the
Ben: mirror, you, you look in the mirror and you’re like, oh God, I see that minute change. And no one else has seen that. Not even your wife.
And she’s seen you naked. You know, however many
Mike: times the right biceps vein is is looking a little less pronounced
Ben: today. . Exactly. So I think so much of it is, yeah, psychosomatic. There’s probably some
Mike: truth to that. So with the two workouts per week, how do you decide when to do them? Like something that I will mention to people is the sleep is a big thing.
Well, they’re asking what should I do? Okay. If I didn’t sleep well last night and I wanted to train today, should I train? Should I not train? Should I take a nap and train? Should I take a nap and not train?
Ben: Yeah, how I’ve done it is I’ve tried to let the flow of life dictate that that’s harder for some people, it’s easier for me.
I work from home, I run my own businesses, like I, I run my life. So I have that flexibility. So you wake up Monday, you’re feeling great, you slept pretty well. Cool, you get into the gym, but then you have three days of really bad sleep, your kids ill or something like that. And it might not be that you work out till Friday again.
And I just think that’s okay. So as long as you have that commitment to like, I’m gonna train twice this week, I’m gonna train when I feel good, or the opportunity arises and maybe I get to the end of the week and I still haven’t found that time. So rather than not train, I’m gonna train, but I’m just gonna dial back the intensity and just like, you know, train at an RPE of five or six rather than seven, eight, you know, lifting weights or something.
So again, it’s about having that flexibility like so many of. Previously before kids might have been like, right, I’m in the gym four days a week, Monday’s legs, you know, Wednesday’s this, Thursday’s that, Saturday’s that. And it’s like rigidity is probably gonna be really tough to achieve being a parent. So that’s why I sort of mentioned, look, let’s lower expectations.
Let’s lower the volume a bit. You don’t need as much volume. Best things that you can probably do when you are under slept, you’re a parent, you know your mental health’s under pressure is probably walk a bit more. So like less lift twice a week. Keep it pretty simple and get outside more. Get outside with your kid, get ’em in the buggy or whatever cuz that’s probably gonna do you just as much good and help you keep your weight down.
Cuz I mean your kids are a little bit older now, did you say five and 10? Yeah. I found it actually really hard to be generally active with young kids because you’re in the house quite a bit or you go out for a walk, but then it might not be ideal. And then when two came along, I found it quite hard to get out.
So like, you know, I really appreciated those walks And you know, as we know, non-exercise activity, thermogenesis, just being active and walking can really help you keep your body composition under control by just, you know, burning a half decent amount of calories every day. Yeah.
Mike: Yeah. I’m, uh, a regular proponent of walking, getting outside and going for walks.
It is, I think, a very underrated form of exercise. It’s good for, well, just general wellbeing, just sitting here and doing this kind of stuff all day long, every day is, is not great for us in, in any way our physical or our mental health. And that’s something I wanted to ask you about is, so you would make sure to get outside and go for walks every day, regardless of sleep or anything else.
And then your strength training was dictated by the time you have and the energy that you have.
Ben: Yep, pretty much. And then another thing that’s been really helpful actually is I’ve got a standing desk with a small walking treadmill under it, and I’ve found that really helpful. That’s been helping me get an extra, like five to 8,000 steps a day.
And that’s been great. Yeah.
Mike: That’s smart. Simple. What about naps?
Ben: I’ve never been a good napper. I mentioned earlier that I only generally at work about six-ish hours a day. So fitting the nap in alongside the kids in the morning, the kids in the evening, it just really, really rarely happens sometimes on the weekend when like family’s over and the kids are being looked after or they’re out playing or whatever.
I might sneak it in, but it’s, it’s, it’s pretty rare I get a quality nap in. It just doesn’t seem to work. And then you might attest to this, I’ve got quite a busy mind, so it can be quite a challenge to actually just calm my mind down enough that it’ll happily take a nap. .
Mike: Yeah. Fortunately that’s, that’s generally not something that I have struggled with.
However, if I do try to take a nap, usually I don’t, these days now I’m sleeping a little bit better. It’s not necessary, but when, when my sleep was, was really screwy after, after Covid, I was taking probably. Two to three naps per week, because otherwise doing something like this was more difficult than it should be.
Uh, anything that I, where I had to actually think if, if I was just kind of like answering emails all day, fine. I could do that with not much sleep. But if I’m trying to write, if I’m trying to have a conversation, if I’m trying to work on marketing projects that require me to think, especially creatively, it almost just didn’t work.
If I was under slept, uh, at least the, the productivity was so bad that it made more sense to take 45 minutes, maybe even 60 minutes and take a nap and then, Work less 45 to 60 minutes, but at least get more done in that time. And so, uh, so what would happen is often, so I’m lying down, kind of trying to relax and then randomly something pops into my head related to work always that I want to check on some idea, did that person do this?
What’s going on with that? However, what has worked well for me is I use Google Keep for this, just some free Google app. And I got this idea, I think probably from getting things done that David Allen book that I read years ago that I don’t try to remember anything, whatever. Is whatever kinda appointments I have, anything I need to like do at certain times.
That goes on my calendar in the case of like, oh, I need to find out what’s happening with blah. I need to remember to check on blah, whatever. I just drop a note in Google Keep, and then I process that usually every day there’s stuff in there that is a little bit more pressing. Sometimes it’s things I can get to on the weekend, but that has helped me.
Maybe, maybe also, I just don’t have an inclination to have a racing mind. However, that process has helped me where like anything that if it comes to mind and I want to do something later, I just dump it. Even if it’s, Hey, look into this, I wonder if this is a good idea. Dump it into my Google Keep. It’s there, and now I don’t have to try to keep anything
Ben: in my.
That’s a really good tip. I like that. Cuz normally if you’re lying there not being able to get to sleep, you’re holding onto things, aren’t you? So, yeah, I like it. Good tip.
Mike: I, I need, I need to make sure I remember to do blah. Yeah. That does not work for me. I will not be able to sleep, but if I write it down, there just seems to be something to that where now it’s not on my mind anymore.
And so with expectations, I, I wanted to come back to that. Cause I think that’s a very, a very good point. Something that I’ve, I’ve experienced over the years of the expectations of I want to push and make progress versus I want to keep what I’ve got. And I, I think that, you know, in my experience at least working with people, I don’t know if you’ve had the same thing.
Many people, they have a hard time, especially with kids where they’re used to before kids. , they have all the time they want, and they have all the energy they need, and they’re sleeping great and their expectations are pushing, making progress. And they’ve been like that for a long time. And now that they’re not doing that, it, it feels like something’s missing from their life.
And they have a lot of trouble accepting that that’s just not possible right now. But that doesn’t mean that nothing is possible. It doesn’t mean that the wheels just have to fall
Ben: off. And I suppose attached to your question is, I suppose, how did I potentially sort of come to terms with that? Or do I have any tips?
I think it’s kind of a time thing and a maturity thing that you kind of learned to just accept that. But it comes back to kind of, I suppose the question of why, like why are you chasing progress? So when I was in the gym when I was younger, I wanted to. You know, not gonna lie, I wanted to improve my athletic performance to play rugby and, um, I just enjoyed the feeling of being a bit bigger, a bit stronger and stuff.
But then when I came a dad, I was like, well, I can still keep my muscle mass if I train less and I eat well. So that’s one goal achieved. I’m not playing rugby anymore, so I don’t know. I don’t need to do that. And the kind of strength component of training, that’s just kind of like a nice to have, really like in your everyday life, if you can dead.
300 pounds compared to 200 pounds, that’s not gonna change your life in any way, shape, or form. Like it’s just a gym thing. So actually when you kind of boil it down and you say, why do I want to have progress? Sometimes it is case of well, I’m used to having progress, I’m used to seeing progress in that area of my life.
And especially when you’re not getting progress in other areas of your life, cuz it might be quite chaotic, you know, being a parent can be very chaotic. Um, so I think sometimes it’s just a case of you need to sort of go right back to basics, go to the notepad and pen and go, why am I looking to achieve these fitness goals?
And I think if most, you know, dad’s moms ball down to it, we just wanna be pretty healthy, stay pretty lean, feel good about ourselves and try and maintain our strength. And that doesn’t really have. Look like progress, like it usually would’ve in the gym. You know, sometimes I’ll
Mike: say that. I think in some ways just maintaining what you have is a form of progress because the longer you maintain what you have, if you have health, if you have a good body composition, you have maybe not the strength that you once had, but you still are very strong compared to the average person, you’re not a weakling.
And having strength comes in handy as well in life. The longer you maintain those things, the easier it is to continue maintaining those things, and so, You know, I think that you can kind of reframe it then and say, Hey, that that is a form of progress. Progress is not just one dimensional. Did you get bigger?
Did you get stronger? Did you get leaner? If it’s three nos, then I’m sorry, three strikes, you’re out and you can think like that, and maybe that’s appropriate under certain circumstances. But to your point, I think this is, I’ve had the same experience as you get older and your life gets more complicated and there are things that matter more now than just getting bigger, leaner, and stronger.
You have to change your perspective or training becomes. You lose your motivation. You know, I hear from people who, who they, they, they’re struggling to work that out and they no longer enjoy their training the way that they did because they’re looking at it through that same
Ben: lens. Part of it as well might be the comparison component.
So if you go to a gym where all your buddies have not got kids and they’re all crushing their workouts, they’re progressing and pushing like you used to, then you are feeling left behind because of the environment that you are in. So I’ve trained from home for quite a while, for like five or six years.
I’ve trained from home. Whereas I used to go to a gym and. The only person in my gym is me. And when I go out into the world, like you say, I’m still kind of in better shape than most people. So actually like my comparison pool is tiny. And actually that could be quite a good thing because it’s like, well, training’s just for me now.
I don’t need to compete against John or Dave or Tim or you know, whoever, because it’s just me. And I think sometimes that’s a a big part of it as well. Cause we’re very good as we know as humans, of comparing ourselves to others and the progress we might not be making to their perceived progress. Do you like
Mike: training by yourself
Ben: at home?
Yeah, I do. I really enjoy it. I’m a natural introvert. Like I’m, you know, really happy in my, like shed, I’ve just got a tiny little setup in my shed and, uh, I do, I enjoy it. I just, you know, I quite often do my social media on my phone, like as a work thing, you know, cuz it’s kinda like one of those easy jobs.
So I just hide away for an hour and yeah, I’m more than happy. That’s usually
Mike: what I’m doing if I’m on the bike back there. Either that, or if I have to make a call of some kind, might as well do it on the, on the bike. And if I don’t, if I don’t have either of those things, then I’ll read. I like to read on my phone.
So with your experience here as a parent, is, is there anything else that I haven’t asked you that I, that you, you’re thinking I, I should have asked or anything else that you want to share for, uh, people who. Or again, the people who tend to ask me about this are people who are new parents and they’re struggling with the changes.
Ben: I think the only other thing is be really honest with yourself when you need help. Like make sure you’re asking friends and family cuz like, you know, it’s so easy to like, you know, soldier on through and try and do everything yourself as a parent. Especially if you’ve got a bit of a like, I’m gonna crush this parent in la kind of mindset.
But, um, we all need time by ourself. We all need time out. We need time to reconnect with, you know, nature or wife. Like, so don’t be afraid to just like, even if it’s like, Hey mom, can you come over? See, I can have an hour. See I can go out into the gym cause it’ll make me feel loads better. Like, I think just, just ask for that help.
It can be like life-changing and if you’ve got supportive family that live close, they’re probably more than happy to, to give you that space to look after your physical and mental health. Cuz they both take a bash as a parent.
Mike: I’ve heard the same from even, even many partners where it just never quite occurred to them that they should kind of sit down together and strategize.
Cuz let’s say I’ve heard from many men and women, for example, who both want to be able to do at least a couple of workouts per week and have at least a little bit of time for themselves and. Life is busy and frenetic and they hadn’t sat down to work out the logistics of it. Like, okay, things can change.
Maybe we won’t be able to stick to this plan perfectly. However, this evening, from this time to this time, you could help, you could get the, the kids ready for bed while I’m doing this, and then I could do this for you. And then on this day, maybe we could combine these activities. I, I’ve heard from many people who were able to work out just amongst themselves, uh, without outside help.
Having out outside help, I totally agree is even better. But that’s not always an option. Like, uh, in my case, you know, my kids are 10 and five, so it’s a little bit different, but when they were younger, my wife and I were living in Virginia. We didn’t have any family and yeah, we had some acquaintances.
Nobody close enough who we could recruit for babysitting, per se. I mean, maybe you could work out some play dates where like the kids are over there or whatever. But anyway, so I just wanted to, to throw that out there that I’ve, I have heard from people over the years who were able to figure it out just amongst themselves by just getting very specific and sticking to the plan as best as they.
Ben: Totally me, um, me and the wife usually on a Sunday, we, uh, organize our weekly food shop. We have like a Monday, Wednesday, you know, whatever food plan. And at the same time we’ll do like our commitments that week. So like, where are you going? What are you doing? How do you need help? So the whole week we’re like, plan for both food, supporting each other, logistics.
Then we sit down and ask family for help and stuff where needed. And yeah, it’s really important to have all of those things aligned. So you go into the week working together as a team, as a couple. Can
Mike: you talk quickly before we wrap up on the food side of things? Uh, many people will ask me, what do I eat in a any given day?
What is my weekly kind of meal plan look like? What does that look like
Ben: for. Yeah, real simple. Um, I’ll get up in the morning, usually work for a bit, meditate, organize my day, and then I’ll make my girls breakfasts. They have like a porridge with like mashed fruit, nuts, seeds, like that kind of stuff. Uh, I’ll quite often eat their leftovers with a little bit of like, something added, like you
Mike: can’t throw it away, you gotta eat it.
Ben: Exactly. So, uh, my breakfast is there, you know, leftovers. Sometimes I’ll crumble like a protein bar in it.
Mike: I even think about that in restaurant, like when we go to restaurants, like I know my daughter’s gonna order whatever and she’s gonna eat half of it at best, so I’ll, sometimes I’m only eating like an appetizer because I know I’m gonna eat half of her entree.
And then my son’s probably gonna leave some of his as well. And so that works.
Ben: Tactics. And then lunch is really simple. Sometimes I’ll have like soup sandwiches. I’m a big fan of sourdough, got a little deli in our, uh, town and I’ll have like eggs and sourdough, like real simple stuff. The kids, they’ve never been very good with hand feeding, so we quite often feed them like one pop meals, like spaghetti bologna, risottos, you know, one pot dishes.
Mike: Sorry, what? What’s hand feeding?
Ben: Um, like, you know, if you made them like carrot sticks and cucumber and like bits of cheese, like they just lose interest. They’re like, they’re gone. And then evening time is just classic food, like spaghetti ese, curries. This evening we had like chicken in kind of like a white sauce with uh, cus So just like really simple stuff.
And then, you know, we’ve always got snacks kicking about. Uh, so it’s, it’s a really simple meal structure. It’s three meals a day, a snack, keep it wholesome and at least with the porridge recipe for them, like I’ll swap out the fruit that I like great in it and the different nuts and seeds and that kind of stuff.
So it keeps it simple cuz I’ve noticed that kids are kind of creatures of habits. So I’ve got ’em hooked on like what I would hopefully describe as a, a pretty healthy breakfast for them really early, uh, when, you know, when they’re young. Sounds very
Mike: similar to my kids and my household. For, for your meal prep, you know, like for your dinners for example, is any of that prepped beforehand or.
Is it just,
Ben: we’ll do two bulk cook days on a Monday. We cook for Monday and Thur Tuesday. And then Wednesday quite often I’m out, I play paddle on a night. Um, and then we’ll then bulk cook on a Thursday for Thursday, Friday dinner. And then the weekends quite often with family. So we keep it flexible. We’ll quite often have a roast on a Sunday and a curry with friends on a Saturday night, so, yeah.
And so you
Mike: were then, uh, the, the food is fully prepared. It’s not like a, cuz you know, you can partially prep meals and then kind of cook it fresh or is it fully prepped and you just heat it
Ben: up? Uh, it’s not fully prepped, no. Sort of like, Yeah. Partial. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, the wife doesn’t work currently, so Takes full charge.
She’s the boss, she
Mike: works, uh, it’s just, yeah, it’s a different kind. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s a full-time job being a mom and it would be another discussion, but I think a full-time job that, at least here in the, in the us I dunno how it is over there, is, I don’t think it is, given the recognition that it deserves, uh, at least it, there, there’s, there’s a, a kind of a glamor that is portrayed, uh, in just being career focused and obsessing over work and not having a family.
Or if you do have a family, you just have other people raise your kids. You just send ’em off to daycare or have a nanny or whatever. And if you, if. Succeeding in your work. If you’re moving up the corporate ladder, if you’re making more money, that is admirable. If you’re not doing that, but you’re a great mom, you have a great household, your kids are doing well, you’re a kind of a relic of the patriarchy.
Ben: Hmm. That’s a shame. That should change. Cuz ultimately the most fulfilling things in life are bringing up Your kids have an amazing experience, having connection, seeing them thrive, and they’re only gonna thrive through contact time, love, care, support, education, and yeah, that comes from us being present as parents
Mike: and that’s our next generation.
So , a lot, a lot depends on it. That this is, this was a great discussion, Ben. I, I appreciate you taking the time to come back and do it. Is there anything else that you wanted to say? Uh, I haven’t asked you about or anything else just kind of banging around in your head
Ben: before we wrap up? I don’t think so.
I think I was actually having a, a session with kind of a, we’ll call them a therapist earlier on today and um, I think when you are individuals that are into the gym and into pushing yourself in business and career and trying to do everything, um, we can be pretty hard on ourselves and, um, I think sometimes it’s important to just stand back and be kind to yourself and look at kind of the bigger picture of your life and say is the thing that I’m worried about.
Is it, does it really matter? Is it really that important? You know, that workout that I might have missed? Is it, is it really gonna, you know, be too detrimental? And I think, you know, as parents we can be pretty hard on ourselves. It’s a tough job and we’re all trying to do things like brilliantly. We’re all trying to be a players in the parenting department, but also, you know, keep keeping shape and all the rest of it.
So keep being kind to yourself and keep realigning your expectations and getting the right kinda focus and support around them. I think
Mike: part of it might be that, People, like you’ve mentioned, a lot of, a lot of people listening certainly are very process oriented, which is good because that’s ultimately what what produces results, right?
Is you have to be consistent, you have to do the right actions, you have to be focused on the process to ultimately get the result. And so if our process gets messed up, at least for me, I can say, That is uncomfortable and, and we’re not inclined to look at the results though. And to your point saying, Hey, look at how far I’ve come.
I actually should pat myself on the back. I am doing pretty well. The results are good. Even if my process has gotten kind of messed up recently. I can speak personally, you know, I’ve, I’ve had those thoughts myself because I am very much that person that always wants to do more, always wants to do things exactly the way that I want to do them.
I do not like when my routine gets messed up, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I’m speaking personally here.
Ben: Sounds like you need to readjust your expectations. Mike .
Mike: I have. I’ve worked on it. I’ve made, I’ve made progress. . Some of it though seems to be hardwired. I’m not sure that we can completely change ourselves.
I think we can improve in many ways, but in some ways we are what we are. At least that’s my opinion.
Ben: Awesome. Yeah, it’s been really good to connect again, Mike and hopefully, uh, everyone listening’s got some value out of today.
Mike: Absolutely. And before we wrap up, let’s just, uh, tell people where they can find you and your work if they want to check out your supplements, your educational courses, anything else you want them to know about.
Ben: Sure. Social media is just Ben Kuba. My name’s c o o m b e r, so if you wanna come hang out. Awesome. My supplement company is called Awesome Supplements, only available in the UK in some parts of Europe. And yeah, my book, how to Live An Awesome Life, you’re able to find that on Amazon Audible. And um, if you do have a read connect with me, it’d be awesome to hear what you think. Awesome.
Mike: Well, thanks again for doing this. I really appreciate it. And uh, good luck on the book launch.
Ben: Thanks, Mike
Mike: Awesome. Well, I hope you liked this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and if you did subscribe to the show because it makes sure that you don’t miss new episodes. And it also helps me because it increases the rankings of the show a little bit, which of course then makes it a little bit more easily found by other people who may like it just as much as you.
And if you didn’t like something about this episode or about the show in general, or if you have, uh, ideas or suggestions or just feedback to share, shoot me an email, mike muscle for life.com, muscle f o r life.com, and let me know what I could do better or just, uh, what your thoughts are about maybe what you’d like to see me do in the future.
I read everything myself. I’m always looking for new ideas and constructive feedback. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and I hope to hear from you soon.
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